We went downtown to Artsplosure today and had a great time doing it. We went with our friends John and Marne and their daughter, Suzanna. The kids had a blast while we walked around, checking out art and music.
I heard a band playing on the city stage, so I popped over to take a look (picture here). It was playing the Squirrel Nut Zippers’ song Put a Lid On It, and doing it like it wrote it. It turned out they did: it was the Maxwell/Mosher band, two former members of the Zippers. I wondered where Katharine Whalen – the signature voice of the song – was, but then I forgot how nasty band break-ups can be. Whalen isn’t on speaking terms with Maxwell or Mosher due to the lawsuit [Correction: arbitration. See comments below] the two filed which effectively bankrupted the band. (See my Zip-RDU-Dah, Zippity-ay post about my previous Whalen sighting).
Earlier tonight, I read this writeup from the N&O’s David Menconi detailing the nasty breakup of the band. It made Maxwell and Mosher sound like total dicks for tearing up the partnership agreement under which the Zippers shared publishing royalties. It was insult to injury after the two fled the band. Are they talented musicians? Sure. But backing out of a deal like that, no matter how crummy it seems in hindsight, is just not cool.
Katharine Whalen takes the stage tomorrow with Europa Jazz Quartet at 1 PM. Go check her out.
jeff,
I did chill, for years. Menconi’s article made something public that we had kept private. There were plenty of opportunities for me to go public and bitch and whine; I didn’t think it appropriate.
I don’t begrudge Menconi for doing what he did. We were public figures and much of what he wrote was public information. I understand how the game is played.
Let’s recap, though. Mark wrote a post which mischaracterized what happened, said that we were adding “insult to injury” for performing songs that we wrote, and pronounced us “dicks.”
We jumped all over him, but didn’t resort to insult. I believe Mark did write what he did in ignorance, and he’s admitted as much. For responding firmly but courteously, you call us “bitter…total dicks.” Nice one. At least we’re big dicks!
Lastly, I think my use of “unseemly” was correct, inasmuch as I considered Mark’s original post to “unbecoming or indecorous; improper in speech or form…”
As for our being bitter, suffice to say it hurts to have your scab picked. I’ve never been as thin-skinned as I should be in these matters, and could never coutenance distortion or personal attack. I don’t expect you to understand the years of pain and anguish, am not interested throwing a pity party about it, and take your pronouncement of bitterness for what it’s worth.
Hey, I don’t have a dog in this fight. You guys are great musicians. The Zippers was full of great musicians. I wish you all the best.
If, as you say, what went on was previously private, all I have to go on is the writeup that Menconi did. I said thought that article made you seem like dicks. And I still do. But take up with Menconi, not me.
If I mischaracterized anything, its because you let other people tell the story. Now that you’ve taken the time to post your side, I wouldn’t say you were being dicks. I now know that you were only asking for what was rightfully yours.
Let me ask you, though: do you think Menconi’s article fairly presented your side?
Menconi wrote at one point and said “this is the hardest thing I’ve had to do…everybody’s gonna hate it.” I replied that, although I couldn’t stop him, I was concerned that he was going to employ a kind of Fox News “balance:” that is, countering something factual with something misleading. He disagreed, but essentially, that’s what he did. The stuff that Jimbo said about us being “greedy and jealous,” suing him personally and the band being broke was utter bullhockey. You’ll notice that Ken and I didn’t engage in ad hominem attacks. If we look bad, it might be because we had to do something overt (arbitration) to counter a wrong that was being done covertly.
I told Menconi that the basic tenor of his article was that “terrible shit happened and it’s nobody’s fault.” He hedged and pussyfooted, and printed misleading quotes without correction. Look, he’s a critic, not a journalist, and he got most of the brick and mortar stuff right. I didn’t lose any sleep over it. Most of the awful shit people have to say about us will never reach our ears. You were the unhappy recipient of our frustration, but you fired the first volley, publicly. We were not able to email our response to you, so had to use the comment section you provided. You responded quickly and politely.
At the end of the day, terrible shit did happen with the Zippers, it’s totally people’s fault, and they did not and will not accept responsibility.
As Ken told me this morning, there was only one Court that we put our faith in, and it wasn’t the court of public opinion. The arbitrator heard the whole story, and found for us. Menconi thought that would be sufficient approbation. Looks like it wasn’t.
I’m done with this if you are.
Mark, if it wouldn’t be too unbecoming or indecorous, could you write something that pisses off Archers of Loaf or Superchunk? I wouldn’t mind hearing what they’re up to these days.
————————————–
the blizzog @ jamiegaines.com
Nasty band break-ups are the worst.
Sincerely,
David Lee Roth
No harm, no foul. I still dig your music.
Thanks for stopping by and sharing your story.
Mark
Where was the Editor in Chief when this article hit the paper? I can’t understand the public merit of the article . It’s so gossipy.
Normally I wouldn’t bother, but I’m shocked at the passion of your opinion, shocked at the conclusions that you drew from the article, and amazed that you decided to air them so publically. None of what you concluded was true. The facts in the article are pretty clear, but I’ll spell them out for you:
Tom and I left the band in 1999. After 6 years of work together, my former bandmates stopped paying me. They refused to allow Disney to pay me directly for my writing and performing. We begged our former bandmates to help and they refused.
The non-payment added up: between 1999 and 2003, the band did not pay us $350,000 that was owed. The money was owed because of the tenants of our Partnership agreement, which was set up in the early years of the band. The band violated this agreement, not us.
Please keep in mind that they were not poor at this time. They justified blowing our money. They were able to sleep knowing that I had to sell my home, and that Tom had two kids who were barely able to keep their heads above water. During the entire 4 year process, they refused to communicate with us.
With no recourse, we were forced into arbitration. There never was a lawsuit. This is another lie. Arbitration is generally a more difficult forum for plaintiffs, but after consideration, we were rewarded all $350,000 that had been stolen. Why? Because we were right.
The band threatened bankruptcy and we were forced to settle for less than half of what was stolen. After the lawyers are paid, we’ll end up with less than 1/3 of what was stolen.
How dare you judge what Tom and I did? Would you really walk away from someone stealing $350,000 of your income? How would you tell your family that you were ripped off but you did nothing about it? I’m not sitting here drinking champagne and laughing at my former bandmates. I was only trying to survive while they were enjoying $300 hotel rooms on a tour that lost $240,000. That’s not a joke.
Obviously this whole situation would have been avoided if everyone had just done the right thing. I wish it had. I NEVER wanted to take legal action against my former friends, but when your friends refuse to respond and stop stealing, are they really your friends any longer?
Now I’m not expecting you to believe me… you think I’m a dick. You read a newspaper story and decided to put aside the facts . You got sucked into the lies and sad tale told by my ex band-mates. You believe a guy who walked out on his family when he claims that I am driven by “greed and jealosy.”
I suggest that in the future, you do your homework before you pass judgement on me, and a situation that you obviously don’t understand. The judge in our arbitration concluded that we were the victims in this case: to the tune of $350,000.
In his mind (and mine, too), the dicks were the people who decided to steal from their friends.
Ken Mosher
Mark, you have it backwards.
We were the only ones trying to uphold the partnership agreement. I especially had the most to lose, having written the hit. I was content to let the agreement stand after quitting the band, that is until I realized that they weren’t even sending me my share of publishing nor furnishing any accounting statements.
Essentially, the band used my and Ken’s share of revenue (record royalties included, in Ken’s case) to assuage debts we did not incur for a benefit we did not enjoy. It was free money to them, and in their minds, since we quit the band, we were subject to all of the responsibilities of the partnership agreement and entitled to none of its benefits. The arbitrator agreed with us. For their part, the band initially refused to arbitrate, even though it was provided for in the partnership agreement. They still, to this day, have never disclosed to us any accounting statements that concern our income.
By hiring a manager without our knowledge or consent who commissioned from our income, by never providing us with accounting, by initially refusing to arbitrate and then trifling with the process, and by using our share of partnership income to assuage their debts, the band completely breached every tenet of the partnership agreement–except the one that allowed for division of publishing money.
It’s unseemly for you to wear your ignorance like a badge as you wade in and pronounce your opinion. It’s outrageous for you to use such derogatory language. I understand that people have their favorite Zipper, but it’s not necessary to tear others down to build another up. Inform yourself and stay silent on that which you know nothing about.
Thanks for stopping by.
I don’t know you but I do admire the music you write (and continue to write). I love what you do, I just wish things could have worked out differently for the Zippers. I can’t imagine the ride you guys were on. Few people can, whether they’re in a band or not. It was wrong for me to pretend to.
What I know I have gleaned from the newspaper articles and various sites on the web. I know there are two sides (and often more) to every story. Your side wasn’t well-represented in the article. I regret the conclusions I drew from what was presented.
Thanks for setting me straight.
Mark
Thanks for setting the record straight. I didn’t get that from the article, even after reading it multiple times.
I will link your responses on the main page so that your side gets heard.
Mark
ok, I know close to nothing about these guys or the Squirrel Nut Zippers.
I read the article and I can see maybe why you drew the conclusion you did. I didn’t exactly get there, but I can at least see how you did.
But man, could you two guys be any more bitter?
To come to Mark’s blog and say “How dare you judge what Tom and I did?” and “it’s unseemly for you to wear your ignorance like a badge” is just ignorant (not to mention you’re using “unseemly” incorrectly).
It’s his freaking blog. That’s what it’s for — his opinion.
It’s cool for you to come here to explain your side of the story, but jumping all over him for saying that N&O story “made you sound like total dicks”, well, does make you sound like total dicks.
I think you guys need to chill and work on your chi. You’re obviously still bitter over this whole thing.